Sincere gratitude to my good friend (on the other side of the TV screen) for our joint mission of goodness.
Best regards, Igor Mikhailovich Danilov Tatiana: Greetings, dear friends. Every person in his life asks himself the question, “Who am I? And how to understand what is happening to me, what is happening to my loved ones, and how to explain all these phenomena? And how to actually distinguish who I am as my true self and where the product of my consciousness activity is? What is true happiness, and what is the illusion of a happy life?” For the most part, a modern person realises himself through his internal perception, through various sympathies, antipathies, desires, thoughts, hopes, and he doesn’t understand how and why they arise in him at all. And on the basis of this incomprehension, his worldview is basically formed, which determines the further meaning of each person’s life. And this is a worldview which is based, in fact, on various illusions, self-deception, and misconceptions. And a person simply doesn’t see how he is controlled through his ambition, through his desire, through his selfishness. Many people, including inquisitive psychotherapists
and psychiatrists, faced the same question at different times, “Who is a human with his supposedly “free” will and behaviour and actions which are absolutely unpredictable for himself?” And for the most part, psychiatrists and psychotherapists started their way into their profession, first of all, in order to understand themselves. And their works are an attempt to understand themselves through observing other people. And that’s why their works are not an axiom, their works are not the last word, are not the exact mathematics of psychiatry. It’s just their observations, it’s just their point of view, it’s just their philosophy and their understanding of how the structure of a human is arranged, who the “self” is, and how this “self” interacts with the public “self”. That’s why today we would like to talk about psychiatry and psychotherapy. To raise, let’s say, unresolved issues in this field of science, a very vague field of science, and shed some light of Knowledge on them. There is a series of programmes on ALLATRA TV channel, dedicated to this topic. This is the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS where psychiatrists, psychotherapists, and psychologists from various countries of the world, and just people who are not indifferent, tried to raise some unresolved questions in this area. The range of questions is very wide: from unresolved questions of science up to phenomena to which modern science hasn’t given any answers yet. And, of course, it would be very interesting to sort out these complex questions for people in this field. And it would also be interesting to learn about the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS project at first hand. Today, the participants of this project are sitting with us at the table: this is the host of the project, Alexander… Alexander: Greetings. Tatiana: Diana, speaker of the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS project. Diana: Greetings. Tatiana: Also, today we have Anna, the coordinator of THE UNIVERSAL GRAIN project. Anna: Greetings. Tatiana: And the esteemed Igor Mikhailovich Danilov. Igor Mikhailovich: Greetings. Well, before we move on to the topic you have voiced, let’s make a little digression for our friends, because many of our friends will feel that we have another person with us. But if they don’t see her on camera, this might cause a dissonance in them. They will have a simple misunderstanding. Zhanna, please come over here (specially for you, at your request, we show you that she’s with us), say “hello” to our friends. Zhanna: Hello. Igor Mikhailovich: As you can see, Zhanna is with us, everything is fine, she hasn’t gone anywhere. I apologize, please, let’s continue. Tatiana: Alexander, please tell us about the idea of creating the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS project. How it was born, what you have encountered. And, in general, have you managed to implement what was planned? Alexander: The GAME OF PROFESSIONALS project has actually emerged as a response to public request towards professionals in the field of psychiatry. Because today, it’s no longer a secret that science, as a civil industry, has basically come to a dead end. It has driven itself to the very dead end by its own dogmas, so to say, by those theories which today are incapable of solving elementary issues that ordinary people have. So, what do we have? In actual fact, I’m talking about not only psychiatry, but other fields of science, too. Science has stopped working for the benefit of people, it has stopped serving people. Meaning, those people who came into science create something for themselves, they write some scientific works, invent some terms, but basically… well, again, right? I’m an ordinary person, and I’m not a specialist in this field. I simply have an interest, an ordinary lively interest, just like any person in society, to understand who I am, what happens to me in general, where thoughts come from. And what are these basic… basic notions? Well, and what self-development is, and where we are going, right? Naturally, we are basically going where the society directs us, in a direction where the tendencies, that is, science leads us. I go to a specialist. And coming to a specialist, what do we encounter? Well, during the time that we conduct this project we have been showing what ordinary people encounter. Instead of clear and simple answers, a person gets complicated diagnoses. Yes, there is quite a long list of medications that he has to take or even a straitjacket as a final measure. Well, unfortunately, this is a fact nowadays, and specialists themselves speak out about this. Therefore, the uniqueness of the project is just
to give a new impetus. And to give specifically this science of psychiatry, which is intended to help people, an opportunity to develop anew. And it was the specialists who turned to the ALLATRA Public Movement and who came with a query, “We understand that something is wrong, we understand that we are like in a swamp and are going around in circles.” But when the specialists started to get acquainted with the primordial Knowledge, they understood, they felt that there is something in it, that “here, perhaps, are those answers which today we have been simply unable to give neither to ourselves nor to our clients, ordinary people who come to us, and patients.” As for the format of, let’s say, communication, the process of a so-called game was adopted. Physicists often use it nowadays. This format allows any expert to express any ideas and hypotheses without endangering his or her professional reputation, no matter whether an expert is young and just starting his career, or, on the contrary, he has already reached some heights and has a title. And this allows, let’s say,
to get out of the dead-end situation. We took that as a basis. As the hypothesis we took the Knowledge contained in the series of books by Anastasia Novykh, in the programmes with your participation, and started trying. We started trying and addressing questions, first of all, to ourselves, started asking each other questions, and in my opinion, yes, it turned out
to be quite interesting. Surely, it’s clear that the audience has their own opinion. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, the programmes are topical, and many serious issues of today are raised, that’s true. The only thing is (pardon me, I will criticise a little, you’ll have to forgive me) that there is no in-depth understanding of what experts are talking about. Evaluation and consideration of certain situations are still superficial. Well, nevertheless, this is a serious step already. They say it’s a small step for you, but a big step for humanity — I will rephrase the famous phrase, but this is really true. Therefore, this project is indeed very interesting and important, and I think that it should be developed (but we will talk about this a bit later), maybe in a slightly different format. Alexander: Absolutely right. Even the project participants themselves note this. And this can be seen even after every programme which we release, we discuss it afterwards, we understand, as well as the specialists themselves (Diana will easily confirm this) that the problems have been outlined, that we are somewhere close to that… Igor Mikhailovich: A purpose is determined.
(Alexander: Yes). However, there are more talks about what is being observed, about the effect, but the cause itself is missing (Diana: The cause). Whereas people, first and foremost, need a solution to their problems. They need simple answers to their complex problems. This very grain is needed, which will germinate. Yet, somehow it is missing a little bit. Again, on the one hand, it’s very good that it’s a broad discussion, there are a lot of specialists, but often it all turns into talks, and often they deviate from the essence, which is occasionally grasped by an expert. I observed a lot, I watched your programmes… In particular, Diana grasps and starts to elaborate, but someone always interrupts her. Therefore, there is a slight omission here… This is normal and natural for such kind of programmes, and your attempts… to preserve free thinking in the format of a game without threatening anyone’s reputation. But at the same time,
I would suggest reformatting it a little. Well, let’s say, in the following way: instead of a multitude of experts there might be, for example, a host and an expert, and you invite already those whom you consider necessary for discussing one or another problem, but more profoundly. Then for us, potential patients, let’s say, it will be simpler and easier to understand what a doctor is talking about, right?
Well, this is my view. I understand, of course, this format may also be kept. It’s needed precisely because it allows many to speak out and debate on various topics. Yet, we do understand
how many theories there are today, which have been created and developed on the basis of that very theory of Freud, on his psychoanalysis — 800 or even more already, perhaps…Tatiana: Yes, more than 800… Igor Mikhailovich: More than 800… Tatiana: Yes, at the beginning of the 2000s, there were already more than 800 methods in the psychotherapeutic encyclopedia… This is in addition to the fact that there are various forms, both individual and family ones… this is multiplying even more…Igor Mikhailovich: During this period… during this period, just as many theories have been created, every day new methods are created in psychology… In psychiatry… it is developing a bit slower because it’s too massive and bound to its problems. Whereas psychology is developing basically at a crazy pace, and such development leads to confusion. On the one hand, the more methods there are, the easier it is to solve the tasks, as it may seem. Yet, for some reason this turns out
to be quite the contrary. And as a psychotherapist, Diana will confirm that this doesn’t make it easier for patients, unfortunately. There is no simple solution and no understanding of the essence of the causes. Tatiana: It would be interesting to even find out at what stage modern science is now in general: both that very psychotherapy and psychiatry, what is happening in our science nowadays in general. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, I believe we can address this to the expert. Tatiana: Diana, what is happening in psychiatry as a science? Diana: If we speak about psychiatry as a science and highlight its basic problem of some kind (I’ve been thinking about this myself), the first and the main problem is that we must admit that the whole science of psychiatry is in crisis. We have simply reached a dead end.
There is such a fact. Igor Mikhailovich: May I tell a joke? They say, the main problem of today’s psychiatry is in psychiatrists. Just like the problem of physics is in physicists, and so on. Diana: Right. Alexander: Yes, it’s just that we can easily add to the same joke… again, during the game, we discussed the tools used by modern psychiatrists, and it probably looks more like a toolkit
of some shaman or sorcerer than that of a specialist in the field of science. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, again, here it has to be said that those very shamans and sorcerers sometimes achieved even better results than… Diana: Than experts today. Igor Mikhailovich: Of course. Isn’t that so? We don’t take even more serious areas, as they say, folk medicine. More correctly, this is traditional medicine, because it comes from the traditions of peoples. While modern medicine which is called traditional — well this is… this is modern medicine. Whereas traditional medicine is the traditional one. If we take the famous ones, well… I think everyone knows what impressive results such folk, or more correctly, traditional medicines give, as Chinese medicine, Tibetan medicine, which sometimes even drive science into a corner, don’t they? Diana: Yes. Igor Mikhailovich: Everyone has heard this, everyone knows about it. Therefore, a shaman with a tambourine is sometimes not bad either. Tatiana: More effective, yes. Diana: More effective. Igor Mikhailovich: Sometimes more effective. In any case, there are fewer of various drugs and, let’s say, the consequences of this therapy are more easily tolerated by the patient himself. After all, again, it’s no secret what kind of complications sometimes arise because of incorrectly selected methods of therapy for a particular disease, especially a mental illness. Well, again, what does “a disease” mean?
Is it actually a disease? If we take the scope of schizophrenia, right,
how many nowadays… 2% of the population officially suffer from schizophrenia (Diana: …schizophrenia… that’s the official data). And what about unofficially? Even more. Those who haven’t been sufficiently examined, those who ran away from a doctor or were embarrassed to go (Diana: Those who don’t trust, yes) (Tatiana: Yes, right… stereotypes). Absolutely right. And let’s give a simple example. What is the main criterion for diagnosing schizophrenia? Diana: The state of psychosis, the state when a patient is dangerous either to people around him, or there is a threat (Igor Mikhailovich: To himself) to his own life, yes. Igor Mikhailovich: What is the cause of psychosis? Diana: Well, sort of, the criteria that indicate the state of psychosis are a loss of understanding (Igor Mikhailovich: Control), well, sort of orientation of one’s own personality, as it is believed from the point of view of… (Igor Mikhailovich: Control) yes, control over one’s own state, first and foremost. Yes, and a patient simply loses… well, he becomes disoriented in his own personality… There is actually a very interesting criterion here. A person ceases to be oriented in his own personality (Igor Mikhailovich: We are approaching an interesting point), right, he is disoriented in space and time. Igor Mikhailovich: Okay. What is “one’s own personality” in the understanding of modern psychiatry? Diana: Oh, this… this is the most interesting and key question (Alexander: It’s a good question), and one of the most contentious and controversial ones, as experts themselves say. Igor Mikhailovich: Wait, if we have a contentious question, and psychiatrists don’t come to a consensus (Diana: It’s not agreed upon to this day), then… then how is a case diagnosed if a person loses something that experts don’t know about? And on the basis of this (Tatiana: In fact, on the basis of…) a case is diagnosed. Tatiana: As a matter of fact, a case is diagnosed according to statements of this very patient and his relatives, and moreover, is interpreted by a doctor… Igor Mikhailovich: Well, it’s clear that a person suffers from acute psychosis, he is dangerous, and thus “schizophrenia” is diagnosed. But is it the only case when “schizophrenia” is diagnosed? Is it only when he is dangerous and behaves inappropriately, when he doesn’t control his actions? This is the main criterion for diagnosis, as far as I understand. But how many other criteria are there? Or is it diagnosed only in this case nowadays? Diana: In this case, it’s most often those 2% that statistics provide. They become known to psychiatrists. Igor Mikhailovich: It’s when… it’s when they become known at the time of exacerbation. Diana: Right. Igor Mikhailovich: And how many examples of inappropriate behaviour do we see even among quite normal people, people who, let’s say, for us, for many represent some kind of a role model, people who achieve something? And when we see their inappropriate behaviour… Diana: And for this case, in psychiatry there is a concept of “schizoid personality”. It is sort of a preparatory stage
when the line is still vague. Igor Mikhailovich: Good. Now, here is a simple question: who of the modern idols have never behaved like a “schizoid personality”? And if all of us basically emulate the mask we see, meaning, our idol… Well, someone has one idol, someone has another one, some people like Jackie Chan, pardon me, some other people like singers, while someone else likes former or current presidents. Well, everyone emulates their idol, right? However, they all have manifestations of what deserves a diagnosis, don’t they? But if we compare ourselves to them and try to be like them, it means that this is inherent in us, too. Well, isn’t that so? Diana: Yes, and even more so, the founders… Igor Mikhailovich: We are just widening the circle of pathologically sick people. Diana: Even if we look at the origins of psychiatry
and its founders, we can say that the whole psychiatry today
is created and written… that its foundation was laid by drug addicts and schizophrenics, to be honest. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, this is really so. Diana: Yes. Igor Mikhailovich: Let’s take that very Freud. Diana: Jung. Igor Mikhailovich: Jung. Diana: Kandinsky. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely right. Diana: Well, these are the founders, these are the luminaries whom the whole science still relies on, and people consider them… Igor Mikhailovich: Yes, and again, we’ve touched upon Jung, touched upon Freud, but not many people know what their philosophy was based on. Because you cannot call their theories anything but “philosophy in the psychiatric field”. (Diana: Yes). This is truly so. For example, Jung’s theory was based specifically on philosophy. He was an individual with varied interests, and since he failed to become an archeologist and an Egyptologist, he became a psychiatrist. But he was very into philosophy, particularly into Oriental philosophy, studies of Egypt, its ancient rituals and the like. And what do we see? Jung’s theory which started to develop and predominate as a certain branch of studies. And if we take, for instance, Freud. Freud was very far from philosophy. But he was more inclined towards practice. Not many people know… his, let’s say, psychoanalysis, right? What was it built on? What was laid as its basis? Diana: Well, it is believed… His achievement is considered to be this ternary system that he introduced, right? He defined consciousness, discovered… Igor Mikhailovich: Yes The conscious, the preconscious, and the unconscious. Diana: Right, the conscious, exactly… Yes, ego, super-ego, and id. The conscious and the unconscious. He discovered this
area and described it. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely.
But these are merely words. He described these
very interactions. It’s like a basis, a foundation
(Diana: Right) of his psychoanalysis. Yet, what is the essence? The essence is in his method of
psychoanalysis, right, which he introduced. Diana: The method
of free association. Igor Mikhailovich: Certainly.
But I will ask you as a specialist, where did he get this from?
Doesn’t it remind you of anything? Diana: Well, speaking of Freud, it’s actually difficult
to understand what practice he took it from. Igor Mikhailovich: I see. No, it’s not
difficult. It’s actually not difficult. There were such followers of Jesus Christ,
they were called the first Christians, the purer ones, who tried to preserve the Knowledge
which He had conveyed, more or less in purity. These are the so-called
Cathars (Diana: The Cathars). They had such a notion as
catharsis (Diana: Catharsis). You see, how easy it is,
I’ve just hinted a little bit. And Freud studied all
this in great detail. Well, of course,
he couldn’t name it and show it as it is. He introduced his
own understanding. Trying to understand himself
and his own problems, he introduced this very conscious,
the preconscious, and the unconscious; what people talk about, how they open
up, and why they feel better after that. What did he initially pay
attention to in catharsis itself? To the fact that people
indeed felt better. However, having removed the basis
of catharsis and all its meaning, he kept only the technique (Diana: The form) (Anna:
Right). Absolutely (Diana: Yes), just an empty form (Diana: A flow). It’s the same as the shape
of a building without internal content. Let’s say, there is a building
in which we are now filming. If we go outside
into the street, this building with all its form is
meaningless, if we are not inside it. Well, isn’t that so? Freud did the same thing. So, he simply trampled
on the living, having preserved the
dead and far-fetched. Therefore, his method is also like that,
it entails quite serious consequences. What kind of consequences, I think,
as an expert you know perfectly well that… what his methods and everything else have
led to, and, unfortunately, still lead. I especially like the interpretation
of “what our dreams bring us,” right? It’s his attempt to get
to the bottom of this, again, his inclination for
magic (Diana: For magic), that very drug addiction
and everything else. Diana: Satisfaction of his significance, which
he was striving for throughout his life. Igor Mikhailovich: Sure. Selfishness. Pridefulness,
selfishness and, well, his problems. Again, what point did his
problems get stuck at? Freud’s problem was
the secondary surge. And what was Jung’s problem,
which he liked to talk about and described it as a
kind of enlightenment, as freedom (Diana: Communication
with spirits), at the age of 11? Again,
the same problem as Freud’s: a surge and fear of death. For both of them. After all,
these are the most powerful tools by means of which the system manipulates
our consciousness as a whole, if we approach AllatRa
in the classical form and look at all this
from its perspective. Well, isn’t that so? Diana: This is exactly what’s
embedded in Freud’s theory. Well, you know, we can say that
the system has voiced its tools of manipulating a person the most cynically and bluntly
through those very (Igor Mikhailovich: Quite right)… through Freud (Igor Mikhailovich:
Absolutely). Everyone else, well… Igor Mikhailovich: Indeed, it’s very interesting to
read his works to study how substitutions take place. And now, if we take various teachings
that were brought into this world; for instance, the teaching of Jesus
Christ, meaning His revelation, the teaching of prophet Muhammad and others,
Buddha’s… — no matter whom we take, we can see how everything is
distorted by the same principle. Everything is very simple: human factor, human desires. While in actual fact,
everything is very simple. The same applies
to many illnesses, those which we describe in
different ways and talk about a lot. Let’s put it simply,
illnesses have always existed, humanity has existed
for a long time, and even today’s unresolved problems have
been solved by someone at some point in time. Isn’t this true? Can the Truth actually disappear?
No, it cannot. Therefore,
something exists somewhere, and… And there are
interesting methods which have existed, exist now,
and will exist even after we are gone. Tatiana: Interesting. It turns out
that owing to this grain of Truth, which was embedded even in
that very psychoanalysis, namely (Igor Mikhailovich: It is attractive) this
was promoted, and it is attractive for people (Igor Mikhailovich: The same is everywhere). So,
it spreads only thanks to this little grain, and people feel that something is wrong, don’t they?
That…Diana: And for so many years it persists… Tatiana: Yes, yes… Igor Mikhailovich: Sure… of course. The coordinator
of THE UNIVERSAL GRAIN project, our Anechka, is with us today, right? And she knows better
than anyone that people all over the world
strive for the same thing. And everyone has the same goal
— it’s peace, love, friendship; it is freedom and happiness that
people are looking for. Isn’t it so? Anna: Right, it is really so. Thousands of participants of ALLATRA
Movement around the world already know this, they actively conduct social
surveys, interview people, representatives of different
nationalities and religions. And when you talk to a person and
ask, “What actually unites us? What do we all strive for?” — the answers
are the same from all parts of the world. So, indeed, everywhere people say that “we are
united by the fact that we are all human beings”, “we all want to be happy”, “we all have a
soul” — many people also mention this point. (Tatyana: They voice it.) That is,
very often, while voicing what unites us, people firstly name something associated
with the spiritual component of a human and understand that
all of us want peace, that no one anywhere wants any discord,
strife, depressions, and so on. Everyone wants to be treated well,
they want to live in a community, in a society where friendship,
mutual understanding, and peace reign. And you hear this in
different languages from people of different
continents and nationalities, and you understand how near and dear
this is for everyone, and how easy it is. Whereas nowadays, looking at the consumer
society in which we are living now, you understand that somewhere… there is such a
feeling that we have been deceived somewhere, having been told that, supposedly,
some other values reign now. Although in fact,
looking inside every one of us, you realise that absolutely the same values and
the same aspirations live inside a person. This leads to an understanding
of the importance of everything that participants of
the ALLATRA Movement are doing today, like the GAMES OF PROFESSIONALS
which are held on various subjects: psychology, economics, climate, because all this helps us
as a society to understand what real values and guidelines
we want and can live with, in other words, that… well,
we have the full right to do so because… Igor Mikhailovich:
May I ask a question? A lot of games and a lot of
social surveys are conducted, and they show that all
people want the same thing. Everyone feels and understands that
we’ve been deceived as you say… So, have you found the one
who deceived us or not? Who is this scoundrel?
Anna: Consciousness… it seems to me that it hides itself (Tatiana:
Hides skillfully) skillfully through all spheres, including the psychological
field, that is, because… Igor Mikhailovich: Well,
now a simple question for a psychiatrist: is it normal for a person to
doubt his own consciousness? Is this not a diagnosis? (Diana: Good question.) How can a
person study his own consciousness? As one of your colleagues said, “How is that,
consciousness is observing consciousness?” He said,
“Isn’t this a pathology?” Diana: It’s a separate
psychiatric diagnosis. Igor Mikhailovich:
Absolutely right. And what immediately stands in our way?
Impediments. Meaning, in order for a
person to learn to see, for him to gain freedom and
understanding, and to remove this enemy (not only for a person,
but for humanity as a whole), he still needs to overcome, let’s say,
a lot of various diagnoses, right? Again, the voice in one’s head —
is it a diagnosis of schizophrenia? Diana: Of course,
it’s one of the main symptoms. Igor Mikhailovich: Do you hear
that, dear friends? One of the main symptoms
is the voice in one’s head. And now, honestly raise your hand: who
doesn’t hear the voice in his or her head? No need to lie
(Tatiana: Incessantly). If someone doesn’t hear it,
then he is absolutely controlled by the one who since ancient
times has been called a demon, he is so distracted,
or a drug addict, or an alcoholic, concerned with the external to such an extent
that he doesn’t think about the spiritual or about himself as
Personality at all, and has never observed who
puts thoughts into his head. Only such a person cannot
hear the voice in his head. As for the others… these
different voices talk to everyone. Don’t psychiatrists have
a voice in their heads? Diana: Constantly.
And you just try to get rid of it, try to make it stop talking for
even a minute, for a moment. Igor Mikhailovich: And this
is interesting, my friends, it turns out that the voice in
psychiatrists’ head doesn’t stop talking, but if we hear it even
once, they diagnose us. This is unfair. Anna: I also wanted to add that in this case
the diagnosis should be set for everyone who wrote ancient
teachings around the world. In THE UNIVERSAL GRAIN project,
we actively study the topic of duality, that in fact, the concept that a
human being has a certain component which deceives him, leads him into
lies and various negative consequences, it is present in all religions (Igor
Mikhailovich: Absolutely right). And we took information not only from books,
we personally talked to representatives… Igor Mikhailovich: Do you know what
Anna is talking about right now? Anna is now saying that your prophets may
also be subject to a diagnosis… right? I’m saying it gently… pardon
me, I didn’t talk about that, no (Anna: It’s just that the information about the voice in the head
and about demons is present everywhere) (Tatiana: Yes, exactly). These are modern criteria for diagnosis.
Diana: …of modern science. Igor Mikhailovich:
Yes, of modern science. They just fit our prophets
into their diagnosis. Tatiana: It’s just amazing to
read the works where it is written what actually destroys
our self-awareness. And it is exactly written that a person gets…
Igor Mikhailovich: Yet, what is self-awareness? You say “destroys our self-awareness”.
What is self-awareness? Let us ask the expert again. (Tatiana: As Jung
said…). Excuse me, Diana, we are a little bit… Tatiana: We want
to sort this out. Igor Mikhailovich: I believe that
you, being a speaker and working with
Alexander for a long time, have already got used to
these kinds of questions. Diana: Yes, it’s a good
question what self-awareness is. What’s interesting is that specialists
cannot answer what self-awareness is. Igor Mikhailovich: Okay, specialists
cannot answer what self-awareness is. Then what do we destroy? Anna: Then it’s actually
surprising that the concepts which no one can define become
fundamental concepts in psychiatry. Moreover,
these fundamental concepts are then transferred into
practice, into activity, right? So, practical work is based upon something
that cannot be defined, is that right? Diana: The concepts which science relies
on, yes: the conscious, the unconscious… — they constantly use these terms…
well, we all use these terms, but if asked — no one can
clearly answer what it is. Igor Mikhailovich: May I address
another question to you as an expert? Do you know where
consciousness is located? Tell us as an expert,
what does modern science say? Diana: If as an expert,
from the point of view of science – no… I know this… Igor Mikhailovich:
From the point of view of science. Diana: From the point
of view of science — no. Igor Mikhailovich: Well,
the latest… the latest statements say that our consciousness, since they have already
studied the work of the cortex, the subcortical… Diana: Neurophysiologists say
that it is outside the human body… I gor Mikhailovich: Yes,
nothing has been found there, our consciousness isn’t there and cannot
be in the work of neurons (Diana: Yes). This is a very simple thing. What is it? Where?
Is it an interaction of axons, maybe, or where is
consciousness hiding? They have found it – in the
brain stem (Diana: Found…). As it turns out,
it occupies very little space. Our consciousness is
discrete, it grabs bit by bit. Again, why? From there,
from the brain stem, it sends orders – well, and through all neurons, and from
all neurons information rolls down there. It’s like in the past there were
ray TV sets with such kinescopes, and there was a ray tube. In this tube, the main board
is like in our brain stem, and this was exactly consciousness, while
everything else is a projection of it. Well, this is the assertion by some
experts, another one of the theories. But then again, what are these ancient
brain structures which they talk about? Yes, it’s clear that there forms…
there are centers responsible for the work of the vegetative system;
without them, neither a heart will beat nor, excuse me,
will lungs breathe, right? It’s clear that when vegetative
states occur in people, there is no consciousness,
but the body lives. This is exactly what the ancient
structures are responsible for. Why? So that the brain
doesn’t interfere. But the brain often interferes with it.
Again, we encounter what? Sorry, vegetative crises,
we encounter various neuroses, phobias and all the
rest, which affect what? Through the medulla oblongata, chemical reactions are activated
in response to the body reactions, a person experiences a release of adrenaline
and everything else as a result of panic, isn’t that so? It is.
Diana: Yes. Igor Mikhailovich: That’s what this ancient
structure of the brain is needed for. But the fact that consciousness was found there
— the specialists definitely, of course… Alexander: By the way, it’s a very
interesting piece of information, because the full name of the project is “GAME
OF PROFESSIONALS. What is consciousness?” And precisely the
participants, the experts themselves literally said
at our first meetings that the definition of “consciousness”
is fundamental in psychiatry, and until there is a normal, intelligible,
one may say, true answer to this question, this science simply
won’t be developing. Igor Mikhailovich: So, is there an answer?
Alexander: No. Igor Mikhailovich: And what
do they call consciousness? Alexander: Oh, there was actually a definition (Igor
Mikhailovich: One of the forms of self, right?), yes, the definition, and… Igor
Mikhailovich: One of the forms of self. How many selves does
psychiatry register today? Diana: That which has replaced the
concept of Personality in science today, the true concept of Personality. Igor Mikhailovich: Yes, and again,
Personality. What is Personality? Diana: From the
perspective of science, the first comment that can be found is, “This
is a very complex and ambiguous concept.” That’s what the
comment begins with. Igor Mikhailovich: So,
again, they do say something. Personality… let’s take
the works on psychiatry. Well, here’s a simple question:
how is personality defined? After all, far and wide personality is
mentioned, personality and personality. What is personality?
Do they give at least some definition? Diana: They do. Firstly, this concept
is, sort of, constantly interchanged: “a personality”, “a subjective
object”, “an individual”… And these sort of
confused, interchangeable… Igor Mikhailovich: Fine.
What is character? Diana: Well, character is what is
determined (Igor Mikhailovich: What is it?) by volitional
qualities of a person. Igor Mikhailovich: Isn’t
that a personality? Diana: Then we have to consider how the
concept of “will” is understood in science. After all, in science,
will is associated with… Igor Mikhailovich: Yet,
what is will in science? Diana: Exactly. Igor Mikhailovich: It’s “I don’t want
to, but I’m doing it.” This means,
“I have a will,” right? Diana: Well, from the point of view of science,
will is generally attributed to thinking processes, and it was introduced as sort
of an explanatory concept. Igor Mikhailovich: “When a thought forces
me, even if I don’t want to, I’m doing it.” Diana: Yes, “I can…” Igor Mikhailovich: Okay,
hold on, we’ve again reached a dead end. “A thought forces me, and I understand
that I need to take a step.” For example,
I need to take a step into cold water, but some part inside of me
says that I don’t need this. And this is exactly a manifestation of
the will when I still take this step because someone is looking at
me, right? Diana: “I make a decision.” Igor Mikhailovich:
This is the will — “I make a decision,” right. Yet, who is “I”? Diana: “I” is the one… “I am my
thoughts”, it turns out. Igor Mikhailovich: Okay.
And who is the one who doesn’t want? Which of them is Personality? Diana: And here we come to a dead end.
And here is a dead end because, yes… Igor Mikhailovich: A simple question.
And what is a person’s characteristics, or a person’s character? Well, I’ve just answered: the characteristic
of a person is the character of a person. What is that? It’s the description of
his mask, which he wears, isn’t it so? And what person
doesn’t wear a mask? A simple question: is there at least one
person on earth, a common, an ordinary one (I don’t take those who
are in some spiritual…, in something else, but just
us, ordinary people, citizens), and is there at least one of
us, who wears only one mask? I have, excuse me, a Chihuahua at home, so
it has about 5 masks itself as I’ve counted, and this is a Chihuahua,
while humans definitely have more. Why? Let’s look at a simple example.
Many would say, “How? How is that..?” Guys, it’s very simple.
How do you behave with your parents? How do you behave
with your colleagues? If you have superiors,
how do you behave with them, and how do you behave
with your subordinates? How do you behave with
those whom you flirt with, and with your, pardon
me, other halves? How many masks are there? Diana: Well, we’ve already counted.
Igor Mikhailovich: So, where is the truth? Is this characteristic
— a mask characteristic? How can we characterize a person
who is always the same everywhere? There are no people who are
the same always and everywhere. For example, one who is tough and
rude, he allows, let’s say, manifestations of his character
where it’s permissible, but where it’s not permissible,
he is completely different. Why, if this is your character? Diana: A good question.
Igor Mikhailovich: A simple question, right? Tatyana: It’s a big delusion that
character doesn’t change throughout life, as people often
use these concepts. Igor Mikhailovich: Character
doesn’t exist (Tatiana: Right). The character of a person is (Tatyana:
Masks) his mask which he has created. It’s the image which he
wants to see himself as, and he is trying
to demonstrate it. However, a situation forces him
to be one or another person. And when they describe a person,
“He has such a character…”, and so on. Well, this is again a
description of his masks which a person can easily change based on a
particular situation, well, isn’t that so? Diana: In order to adapt to it and manage it. Igor Mikhailovich:
Absolutely right. Diana: An illusion. An illusion of control. Igor Mikhailovich: Illusions, illusions, and illusions. Diana: …of power
over a situation, over other people. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely right: adaptation, convenience.
Everything is simple. So, with the experts we’ve
got down to the point that we have a
changeable character, and it’s unclear
what Personality is; as for how many selves we have — our
speaker hasn’t answered us so far. How many selves does psychiatry
envisage to be present in a person? Diana: There are three main selves according
to Freud. Igor Mikhailovich: Three main ones. Guys, you have three main selves,
this is what psychiatry asserts. Diana: And then we diagnose cases
based on a split personality. Igor Mikhailovich: Wait,
how is that — a split personality? Does it mean that one “self” has left?
(Diana: When…) Just two remain? So, we have split in two, right? It’s because there is no third one,
one is missing for a complete set, just two remain — it means a diagnosis, while
when there are three — this is normal. Or what? Diana: Yes,
so much fun about psychiatry… Igor Mikhailovich: In fact, I perfectly
understand Diana’s state right now, because I’m asking
stupid questions. Those psychiatrists who will be watching us,
they will be like, “I would have answered him, I would…”, “I would say
this”, “I would say that.” Guys, it’s very easy to sit on the
other side and come up with answers. It’s much more interesting here. So, I suggest that you
make such a programme when there are two of you, meaning, Alexander
will sit in my place and ask questions. So, to investigate in this manner until
you yourself understand (Alexander: Yes). Then it will be interesting,
then it will be clear to others, right? Because the game was going on,
but you yourself didn’t get the answers. And if you haven’t got them, how shall
we, your audience, get them, right? Diana: Actually, these are very good
questions, the ones you are asking now. They are very precise. Igor Mikhailovich:
They are correct (Diana: Yes). They make us (Diana: …see
what actually…) as doctors… Sorry, I also have something
to do with medicine, so I’m by no means trying to corner
Diana, absolutely not. I won’t be able to do that, after all, she’s
a psychiatrist, while I am not, thank God. However, as a person having
something to do with medicine, I perfectly understand everything and understand
all the problems of modern healthcare, including psychiatry,
as well as any other of our sectors. No matter how we look at it, this is so,
but we still need to look for answers… in a free format. After all,
many are afraid because of what? “If I say a word in a wrong way,
they won’t consider me a specialist, I will lose my authority. How will they treat me?” Guys, if we were freer… like Anna said: people strive for freedom,
for Love, for friendship and the like. So, if we really were such
people as we want to be, we would have been asking these questions
since long ago… openly and honestly. Then we would have to search
for the answers, wouldn’t we? If a person is busy searching for an
answer, he will certainly find it. It’s all simple. How many insights have come to you over
the period of the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS? Diana: A great many. Igor Mikhailovich: Is this
useful for your practice? Diana: This… You know, I would even
call the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS… sort of an educational project and, first
of all, for the participants themselves. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely. Diana: First
and foremost. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely. Diana: In my opinion, what’s valuable, very
valuable about it, is the action itself (it was already an action) and the opportunity to talk about things
which are not talked about openly. Igor Mikhailovich: Because one mustn’t speak…
couldn’t speak out. Diana: It’s not customary. Igor Mikhailovich: It’s not
customary (Diana: Not customary): “If you speak out, then how can you
doubt when you are a specialist?” Diana: Yes: “How
do you work then?” Igor Mikhailovich: “How do you work then?”
Diana: “…and do you actually help?” And it was a very important
point, you know, to convey that there are hypotheses today.
A real working hypothesis. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely, of course.
Diana: That was a very important point. And speaking about
what insights came and where sort of a dead end happened
in this GAME OF PROFESSIONALS, according to my own perception… You see, it’s possible… now we
are talking about information, what information is available in science,
there is no understanding… because there is
no understanding. And in the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS it was very important
to begin with the topic of “What is consciousness?”, because until you understand
and start separating yourself from this (Igor Mikhailovich:
And this is the key), right… What Personality to
search for and where, if we are convinced, we’ve been
convinced, and we agreed with this, that consciousness is exactly
me, my thoughts are exactly me, then what can we talk about?
Nothing. Igor Mikhailovich: And thus we come
to a complete dead end (Diana: Yes). If our thought is us,
then everything else just falls off (Diana: Yes, exactly).
How can we cure anything we don’t know, and again,
search for anything we don’t know? In the literal
sense of the word, is it possible to find
something we don’t know? Moreover, to look for it somewhere (like in
the fairy tale), don’t know where, right? Diana: What’s also interesting is that science
even ties through the concept of will, creates an illusion that we
control our thinking processes. Igor Mikhailovich: And here is a simple
example: in ancient religions, it was said that a human doesn’t have
a will (Diana: He doesn’t). He has the freedom of
choice (Diana: Yes). He encounters two wills. The passive will comes
from the Spiritual World. Why is it passive? Because it doesn’t impose
anything, it is there, and a person internally,
at the level of Personality (but now we are talking more
in terms of the AllatRa concept than in terms of the concept of
psychotherapy or psychiatry in general)… At the level of Personality, a person feels
how to act right in a particular situation. And there is an active will which comes
from the one who in ancient religions and to this day has been
called the devil or the system, well,
it is called in different ways, it doesn’t matter, the universal
mind or a single information field, whatever is more pleasant for a person to hear
so as not to irritate the demons inside him. And this will is outgoing,
it is very active and is being imposed, and it makes a person
do stupid things, it argues nicely,
shows a prospect of the future, shows dreams which it
makes you believe in, and convinces that
they can come true. But as a matter of fact,
these dreams do not come true. After a person,
committing a stupid act, realises that he has done something
wrong, he has done harm to himself… Well,
even if he has earned a penny, consciousness tells him that
“you have risen above the rest, you have stolen from the poor. But they are poor exactly
for you to be above them. ” Well,
and all such kind of nonsense. We can talk a lot about this, but in
fact, consciousness always manipulates. It’s not necessarily that you have stolen
something or have risen above other people, it’s enough for you just to think badly
about your mate, as simple as that. If he is your mate,
why do you think badly about him? If you have any question or any complaint
about him — just come up and ask him, because he is your mate,
but if you don’t come up and don’t ask, then don’t call him a mate.
Isn’t that so? A mate is a friend. A friend is the one you
have to be open with. Just like in the
days of the Cathars. After all, what was practiced? Not just classes when they practiced
catharsis, when they gathered, but everyday catharsis
was going on, too. Meaning, a person didn’t keep a negative thought
which had come and tried to settle in him. He approached the one against whom
the thought had come and said, “A thought from a
demon comes to me,” he said in those exact
words: “from a demon”. “I actually have no complaints about
you, but this is being imposed. Why?” And in most cases, the same thoughts arose in the
other person as well, the one whom he approached, because, as a rule,
a command is sent both ways in order to divide,
to set people against each other, and to create that
world which we have now. And that’s why, as Anechka has mentioned
regarding THE UNIVERSAL GRAIN project, all people around the
world want the same thing, but they continue to
exist just as they exist: we are all divided, we are at
war, we deceive each other, we lie to one another,
we envy, don’t we? We strive to exalt ourselves over
someone in order to get a disappointment. And tell me, has anyone who
reached the maximum become happier? Well, I mean,
who became the president of a country or, like Alexander of Macedonia,
conquered most of the world, right? Or like Hitler who conquered much.
Did he become happy? And where is his
happiness, and where is he? And can happiness be temporary? It cannot, while in ancient religious treatises it was
written that happiness is a constant thing. It cannot be discrete. It simply cannot be, and all people feel,
know and understand this. Isn’t it so, Anna? Anna: Yes, of course. Happiness is one of the
main concepts that people name and voice. And what was really interesting,
before that, I also asked Diana whether psychotherapy has a concept of happiness
as such — and it’s not present there. There is a concept, well, of adequate
comfort or something like that, although happiness is actually… Igor Mikhailovich:
Satisfaction with a situation (Anna: Yes), or peace, let’s say.
When a person is in the state of peace, he is content with everything — this is one
of the descriptions of that very happiness. Anna: And we understand why. Because
consciousness doesn’t know this state, it cannot describe it (Igor Mikhailovich:
Of course, it’s unknown to it). Because happiness is precisely a concept
which is the closest to Personality, to who the true self is, meaning,
the real, the Alive self. This is exactly how you can
describe it — happiness. While at the same time,
consciousness cannot in any way classify or describe, or feel what it is. It’s like, well… it doesn’t
exist for consciousness, but at the same time
people do feel this. So, concepts already play
a secondary role here, because the primary role is played by the very
feelings which people all over the world have. Igor Mikhailovich: Of course, however, consciousness
hates people, and that’s the phenomenon. The part of a human,
that which comes from the spiritual (we again go back to
the duality of a human), it strives for unity, for
love, for universal peace. But the other part which comes
from the demon is always selfish, it wants glory, it wants to exalt
itself, it wants to manipulate. It doesn’t want to work,
but wants to get a lot, and it always hates
people, it always divides. Tell me, please,
all of us actually have beloved or close people,
or people whom we respect, let’s say. Yet, hasn’t your
consciousness reviled at them? A simple question. Well, how..? How can we do this to a person
whom we call a beloved one or who is near or dear to us — and immediately lots of negative
thoughts about him arise in us. Is this right? Let’s put it this
way: is that fair? Yes, it may be explained from the
perspective of psychiatry, psychology, and many other things, right, by means
of a method… Diana: By childhood traumas. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, traumas, right.
Childhood traumas, and many, many other things. However, this is wrong, there cannot
and shouldn’t be such a thing. Anna: Yes, because you understand that
people have plenty of this delusion, it is really due to the fact that people
don’t know about this dual nature. Because you understand that
when you have the Knowledge, you are as if protected,
meaning that you can… Igor Mikhailovich: Anechka,
do you know what the problem is? The problem is not
that people don’t know. They do know. How many people do we have in Islam in the world?
Over a billion. Anna: More than a billion, yes.
Tatiana: …a billion, yes. Igor Mikhailovich: How many
people do we have in Christianity? Anna: Well, also a lot.
I think there are about… approximately… Igor Mikhailovich:
Over a billion. How many people are in Buddhism…
well, and in other religions? And which of these religions doesn’t
talk about the duality of a human? Anna: It is
mentioned everywhere. Igor Mikhailovich: So, are you saying
that people don’t know about this? Do you, people, know, or do you not know?
Anna: They somehow don’t apply this in practice. That is, this knowledge is theoretically there
(Igor Mikhailovich: And here is the answer). Probably, it is rather… it’s not in
the practical field, but in theory. Igor Mikhailovich: You
have just voiced the answer that the Knowledge is there,
but there is no practice. Nobody wants to do this: to study,
to practice, and everything else. Why?
A simple question. Consciousness doesn’t allow them.
So, what is consciousness? Is consciousness me? Do I forbid myself to
develop spiritually? Do I forbid myself to gain Life? Is that what turns out?
Or is it not me? Good questions for
a psychiatrist. Anna: Yes… Diana: In the GAME OF PROFESSIONALS,
we have exactly come to an understanding, and I hope at least that we have
showed it clearly by examples, that consciousness is an aggressive
structure in relation to a human being (Igor Mikhailovich: It is very toxic), it’s
a beast inside of you. And we even… You… Igor Mikhailovich: These are toxic programs. Diana:
Yes. It’s a maniac killer inside every person. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely.
Yet, why? A simple question to you as a
specialist: please, answer honestly, why do we have very few
maniac killers in general, but he sits in everyone? Alexander: There is some kind
of a restraining mechanism which we once again… just the same, we haven’t found
it. We haven’t found the answer to this question. Diana: We don’t know it.
Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely right. And this is extremely interesting. After all, those very maniac killers
(you even had a programme on this topic), they themselves were
shocked by those states, and they couldn’t counterpose anything
to the one who ruled over them. A simple question, yes,
these people are really to blame, they allowed the possibility
of influencing themselves, but in just the same way this may affect
any person if this force comes to him. So, we come to understand
that third forces exist. This already smells
like metaphysics (Diana: Just like all psychiatry, yes). Your
colleagues already begin to diagnose us, well, this is normal. Diana: All psychiatry in general, it’s as if
it came face to face with the invisible world. Igor Mikhailovich: Surely,
it couldn’t but face it. Diana: Or, let’s say,
its invisible manifestations. Igor Mikhailovich: How many specialists (Diana:
Yes), your colleagues came close to metaphysics, got scared and recoiled
(Diana: And recoiled, yes). And started renouncing it,
saying that it’s impossible. Why?
What were they so afraid of? After all,
they were facing the truth. A comfortable seat
at their workplace, nothing else was
holding them back. Precisely personal authority,
income and colleagues’ respect stand in the way of the truth.
Сonformism. Alexander: A situation developed when we were
preparing for the GAME on the subject of fear. We were coming up with
examples and discussing them. And so Diana’s colleagues, specialists
were giving very good, vivid examples. And everyone was deciding for themselves
what they were going to talk about and what they would try to figure out.
And there were some examples regarding the fear of public speaking,
fear of evaluation, and so on. And it was a lively discussion up to the
point when everyone faced a question: what actually prevents specialists from
talking openly about the problems that exist? Immediately, there came a pause. Igor Mikhailovich: Well,
the visible is what I have just voiced: authority and everything else. Well, it’s an excuse
from consciousness. He is trying to justify
his fear this way. Why doesn’t he talk about
what he really encounters? Well, sort of “they won’t
understand”, “I will be judged”, “I’ll lose my job”,
“my authority will diminish”. No, of course not. Because everyone, anyone understands
that, on the contrary, he might lose his job,
but he will have more patients. Why? Because of
popularity and fame. After all, pardon me, neither Freud
nor Jung disdained anything, right? They would, excuse me,
even have run around with a tambourine if they had had at least the
slightest hint that it worked. However, they wanted to appear as learned
men, well, there was such a fashion, and so they were seeking that and were showing
their inferences in such a complicated wording. And they removed the tambourine because
of that, so as not to simplify the system. The more complicated it is in
science, the more scientific it is. But in reality,
what is behind it? Fear in their consciousness
that prohibits. And it’s enough for an expert
to step over his consciousness. But if he believes that
he is consciousness, how can he step over himself?
(Diana: Over himself…) And what begins? Exacerbation of schizophrenia
in the expert himself. He gets scared, diagnoses himself, and begins
to push all this away as far as possible because he not just hears
his thoughts as voices, but he hears real voices (just
as we hear them verbally) inside his head,
which give him clear orders. Because the system starts
dictating its will, and he doesn’t simply hear voices,
whispers or various chatter, but he hears a real voice loudly (it claims in such
a manner too), and when a person encounters that,
he understands that this is schizophrenia. Tatiana: And inversely… Igor Mikhailovich: Of course. So, the levers
of manipulation and control over experts are very broad within
the system itself. Yet, what is the trouble? The trouble is that a person
is not regarded as a structure, as in that very
psychiatry, right? That is, where there is the soul,
Personality, consciousness and the body. Again, besides the body,
there is the energy structure. Why was it always talked
about in ancient times? All practices were
grounded on this. Today, we have mentioned ancient Chinese
medicine, ancient Tibetan medicine, which exists to this very day
and sometimes cures the diseases that, excuse me, we,
modern doctors, cannot cure. Why?
A simple question. Because they have a holistic
approach to a person, and consider… Although, again, what is that
very Chinese and Tibetan medicine? After all, this is…
let’s say, this is just an echo, a shadow of that art, the Dim Mak art as it has been
called for the last 1,000 years, right? Well, for some reason it is believed that
this art is aimed at taking someone’s life. No, my friends, this art was originally aimed (and even in such a modified and lighter
version as Dim Mak, as it remains today), it is the art of gaining
and preserving life. After all, everything in it is built so that
a person could gain life in this very art. And the impacts which they study are
much more aimed at resuscitating, saving a person’s life,
restoring his balance, his energy and psychological balance,
so that he can live and exist normally… And it’s only slightly aimed at
defence, if it is necessary, let’s say, to defend oneself against someone
who behaves aggressively towards this person. Well, for example, there are
certainly many legends about this art, and a lot in them has
proved to be true. Igor Mikhailovich: Let’s put it simply. Yes, there is and has been preserved such a notion as remote influence, when a person isn’t even aware, but an impact occurs. However, let’s just consider: don’t we encounter this remote influence in everyday life, well, like, honestly? A thought comes about a person whom you haven’t thought of for 10 years. Five minutes later, he calls you. Have you predicted his call? Or is there any kind of telepathic connection? Is this a coincidence? And who hasn’t encountered this in his life? And how many times such… A person comes to mind, we haven’t thought of or seen him for a long time — and suddenly (in a day or two, or in a week) we meet him. Is this precognition, foresight, what should we call it? Well, a simple question. Yet, taking into account that this happens frequently, such phenomena were studied by such masters in that very neurophysiology or biology, as Pavlov, Bekhterev, and others, weren’t they? After all, back then… well, I do understand, back then, they relied on such a concept as “ether”. And they clearly proved everything, they conducted experiments, and these experiments worked. And there were so many works at that time which demonstrated the actual existence of that very telepathy, that very precognition, and that very telekinesis. But later on, all of a sudden, it all disappeared along with ether. Well, we won’t go into what ether is, and where this has gone. It’s just that ether very easily explained all these manifestations and how they work. When ether was removed, there was nothing to link this all to, everything… everything stopped developing, and this science ceased. Afterwards, all this was declared pseudoscience, “Metaphysics doesn’t exist.” Well, it’s easier this way. Yet, why does it work for you, my friends, if it doesn’t exist? A good question, isn’t it?
And so we’ve started from the elementary. By the way, the concept of ether explained what is now extremely difficult to explain from the standpoint of physics.
I’ll give a simple example. Well, in order to have an understanding that we have a problem not only in the field of psychiatry, let’s say, we also have a problem in physics. Let’s take a simple interrelation… a planetary one, the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun — the gravitational interaction of these three bodies. Why is the Moon still in its place? Doesn’t that violate the laws of physics?
A simple question. Based on all the laws, no matter how we twist that, I understand, there are centrifugal… and everything else, it’s all wrong, guys. Now, if you look with an open mind, then the Sun should have taken the Moon from us a long time ago. Yet, the Moon is in its place. Whereas the ether explained this easily, the very concept of ether. Well, “it doesn’t exist” — and there is nothing to be guided by and nothing to explain it with, so to speak. For instance, there is an artist, if we take away his paints and canvas, who is he? A simple question. A fantasist, a dreamer.
It’s exactly the same with the practitioners who conducted evidence-based experiments quite recently and showed in practice what we now call a non-existent fact. Isn’t that so? Thus, it was these “non-existent facts” that ancient knowledge on how to help a person was built upon, including the art of Dim Mak, remote impact, point impact, and many more. Well, again, if we take… Well, let’s take the simplest thing from your profession, which today bugs people the most, scares them and makes their life unbearable. Well, it might seem to be both simple and complex at the same time. For example, those very vegetative crises, we’ve mentioned them today, haven’t we? (Diana: Yes.) Panic states (Diana: Panic states…), those attacks. Diana: They are very widespread nowadays. Igor Mikhailovich: Very. It is generally believed that 5% of the world’s population suffers from them constantly. Well, almost every adult today, at least once in his life, and sometimes far more than once, has experienced these panic attacks. And again, the more our informational, so to say, world develops, the more complex it becomes in terms of information, the more often these attacks will occur. Everything correlates and interacts with each other. And so, again, if we consider, well, just recently we discussed the fact that if we draw such a curve and a correlation between economy and cataclysms (Tatiana: Development… cataclysms) and development of, let’s say (Tatiana: Depressions, various disorders, yes…) (Diana: Yes, the growth of mental disorders), right, various diseases of your field, they grow at the same pace (Diana: At the same pace). A simple question: why? How is all this interrelated? Of course, one can put forward theories and try to somehow explain and prove that, but this won’t show the truth anyway. Let’s go back to these vegetative crises of ours. What treatment is available today? Diana: This question has just been on the tip of my tongue. After all, nowadays, all panic attacks are treated mainly with tranquilizers, antidepressants, and their various combinations. This is absolutely ineffective… all patients already say that (Igor Mikhailovich: That’s right, but it is actually believed…). Yet, at the core… right. Yet, at the core, and everyone understands this, even patients themselves, it’s interesting that they come and say, “Just don’t tell me that I need to learn to switch my attention. I have already visited a lot of specialists, everyone is telling me this. How? How to do this?” Igor Mikhailovich: Everyone says “to switch one’s attention” and so on (Diana: Yes). However, at the same time, what do your colleagues assert? That a panic attack doesn’t manifest by itself. It’s a consequence of, well, starting with a valve prolapse and ending with thyroid diseases; it is based on something, and owing to this, the triggering mechanism is activated — an adrenaline rush, something should contribute to this. And in order to cure this, it’s necessary to find out what the trigger was. How many patients or people, let’s say, are there with a mitral valve prolapse? There are many. Do all of them have panic attacks? (Diana: No.) And with thyroid disease? No. The same is, pardon me, with biliary disorders and many other diseases.
Lots of them, right? However, panic attacks arise in both cases, and they are very similar. So, are they a consequence of those diseases or something else? Diana: Well, nowadays, all adherents of biological theories have stumbled exactly upon this and started doubting: maybe,
everything is quite the opposite, and it is long experienced emotions that trigger changes in the body, and not changes in the body that trigger some kinds of emotional states? Igor Mikhailovich: It’s an interesting question, isn’t it? Diana: They already begin to ask themselves this question. Igor Mikhailovich: They themselves begin to ask (Diana: Yes). And once again, everyone knows: it’s necessary to switch one’s attention. Why? Because an obsessive thought comes, we feel some kind of changes, and subsequently, it all develops. We reach the point of a vegetative crisis, we get it, we survive, and then we are afraid of it. Since we are afraid of it, will it recur? Well, it certainly will (Diana: It will). Again, what takes place here? Doesn’t it mean it’s a psychological component? Diana: Because the essence of a panic attack is precisely concentration on certain thoughts. Its essence is in this. And patients themselves say, “As soon as I manage to switch my attention at least temporarily — that’s it.” And even during a meeting with a patient you switch his attention, that’s it — there is no attack. But it doesn’t work… just doesn’t… Tatiana: On their own? Diana: Yes. Igor Mikhailovich: Is it really possible to cure this disease by the method of switching? Diana: No, solely switching… Although if a person learned and understood who controls attention, and knew how to do that, then that’s it — there would be no panic attacks. Igor Mikhailovich: Right, it would be immediately much simpler. Well, let’s put it this way, there is one of the oldest meditative practices (well, it sort of already borders on the spiritual one), it is called Chetverik and is described in this book, in AllatRa, right? And it was practiced thousands and thousands of years ago. Why? Because a person, knowing his structure, began to feel. There isn’t any attack yet, but he already feels someone’s… feels the activity of one of the sides, and he can immediately take an action which blocks or stops this crisis (Diana: Yes), it hasn’t even started yet. The same applies to many other factors. Well, again, what should a person do if a panic attack begins, and he cannot, for instance, switch his attention to something, or anything else? Should he take tranquilizers?! Diana: Well, as of today, yes, nothing else is offered. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, and what do tranquilizers provide? Diana: Nothing, immobilization for a certain while. Well, it’s like relieving this anxiety, reducing it for a while. For a while, well, like… Igor Mikhailovich: Isn’t the mechanism of action similar to that of alcohol and drugs in terms of their adverse effect on a human? Diana: Yes, that’s what we constantly forget about when we say that we are sort of able to treat (supporters of pharmacological treatment of diseases, of chemical treatment say this), but we forget that the side effects of all psychotropic medications include a whole list of mental illnesses. Igor Mikhailovich: Of course, they contribute to their development. Diana: Yes, exactly. We launch these mechanisms. Igor Mikhailovich: And the withdrawal syndrome is much harder than what they were treating. Diana: Yes, it causes a severe exacerbation. Igor Mikhailovich: Absolutely, and let’s just take the simplest ones again: for instance, depression or, again, vegetative crises, these panic attacks, as we say, arise. A person takes medications against them, as soon as he stops taking them (Diana: That’s it, it starts right away…) — what is the number of suicides? Diana: Yes. It increases immediately. Igor Mikhailovich: A simple question, we are taking the hardest cases. So, suicides increase by many times. Panic attacks don’t kill as much as withdrawal of medications later on, and everyone knows that. Yet, why is this happening? Because a person gets desperate. And, trying to escape,
he does what his consciousness wants. After all, it’s consciousness that makes him commit suicide, once again, at a time when he doesn’t want to. And when he doesn’t want to, the one who doesn’t want to is exactly the Personality. You see how easy it is to find it. Well, it’s easy to find it, but it’s hard to live with it. So, going back to more ancient methods, that very method of Dim Mak, yes, or the art of Dim Mak. After all, there are basic practical methods in it, which enable one to easily stop these states, and, let’s say, not only panic attacks, but also various obsessive states (Diana: Obsessive…), from which it is very easy to get out thanks to elementary techniques. For example, for… well, this is one of the first things they use as a means of self-help for, let’s say, avoiding psychological problems, but it also has a broader effect, this primary technique. It allows us to avoid, let’s say, severe consequences of poisoning with various poisons. And here’s another amazing thing (I’m going to tell you about this method now, I think it will be interesting for you (Diana: Yes), as well as for our friends and mates)… It’s amazing (I’m just running ahead of myself) that it’s an impact on the points, yes, breathing in a proper way, and concentration of attention. Well, all this is sort of easily explained from the standpoint of psychiatry: a person has redirected his attention, inflicted pain on himself, got relieved, plus there is holding of breath, again, enrichment with carbon dioxide, his vessels have dilated, and so the crisis is over. Then there is a simple question: this simple basic practice (well, it’s not even a little self-help, but self-resuscitation, I would say), it helps, let’s say, in cases of poisoning with various poisons and bites of various snakes, scorpions and all the rest. Moreover, sometimes it completely replaces all the actions. So, a snake bites a person, the person performs the practice if there is nothing at hand, or uses it as an auxiliary… Well, it’s clear that it’s necessary to squeeze the poison out, to take preventive measures, to reduce the concentration… of a toxic substance in the body… But nevertheless, by conducting this practice, people survive. It’s a paradox. How can ordinary pressure on the points, well, let’s say, on the nerve nodes, holding one’s breath and concentration of attention lead to disappearance of a poison toxicity? Well, it’s kind of hard to say. The most interesting thing is that it’s… I’m running ahead of myself again, and I will tell you that back then, quite a long time ago, we were wondering what the results of these practices were. We even looked at encephalography,
on MRI it was a bit difficult… we didn’t see any such obvious changes, but watching the brain, the work of the brain, the amplitude of its frequency —
the changes were colossal. It doesn’t work to cause these changes in any other way or a similar way, by slightly changing the technique. Again, let’s go back, pardon me, I’m philosophizing too much, it’s just interesting to talk to a colleague. In these arts, in that very art of Dim Mak and the more ancient one, it’s very important to properly comply with everything to the last detail. A slightest deviation — and there will be no result. For instance, everyone knows the He Gu point, everyone knows Wai Guan and Nei Guan – these are the three major points, which are activated. However, are there three or two of them? And here we again enter into a dispute with contemporary methods. The Wai Guan point: if it is affected from above (well, maybe with a needle, via compression, acupressure, cautery, or whatever that may be), perhaps in this case – yes, it works more like reflexotherapy, distraction or something else. The same is with the Nei Guan point and the He Gu point: no matter what side we press on them from, this doesn’t give the effect which is provided by the correct approach and performance. Why? Because… well, let me explain. In the modern understanding – yes, there are meridians, there are channels and the like. However, since ancient times it has been understood: there is the upper side (the exterior side), there is the interior side, and there is the median side. So, there are meridians located on the outside, on the inside, and in the middle. These are the three points which I’ve named (actually two), and the impact on them goes exactly by pressing from the two sides. What is another difference? The impact is always done with the right hand to the left side – it’s when a person is trying to cure. Whereas, what we have in contemporary acupuncture, acupressure or something else is that we press with whatever we like and wherever we like. While the difference is huge. For example, in order to make the He Gu point work, if we press like this, I’m just showing, that is, the first finger is below, the second finger is on the top. It’s very easy to find it, by the way: we put the fingers like this, it’s between the first and the second finger. What is located under our finger pad appears from the two sides, we press – and it hurts there. And this painfulness is exactly this little point. It is activated only this way. Any other way, no matter how we affect it, we can irritate nervous receptors, there will be an excitation of brain neurons, various surges will take place, but there will be no phenomenal work. So, let’s put it this way, we won’t succeed at all in neutralizing
the effect of a poison. Again, how to find this point (let’s go back to Wai Guan)? This is very simple. We take the third and the fourth finger, raise our hand like this, put the fingers here, under the wrist, this way, and put the second finger near. What is located here is exactly called Wai Guan. On the opposite side, there is Nei Guan. Yet, when we press between the radius and the ulna bones, do like this a little bit forwards and backwards, we find a point, the most painful point is, again, precisely what we are talking about. And basically, these very two points (well, or three points according to the modern classification) were exactly used in that very Dim Mak art, or also in order to really get rid of these states at the very beginning, to relieve an attack, so to say. For instance, a person starts feeling a panic attack. Everyone knows very well how it occurs – thoughts appear. What has to be done in the first place, based on this method? Everything is very simple. I’ll explain and tell you. Let me repeat once again: it’s very important not to confuse these things. If you press this way – there will be no effect. If you are lucky, there will be a placebo effect, or breath holding will really work, concentration and everything else, and there will simply be a pain syndrome. We press this way. With our forefinger from the top, and with our thumb (or the first finger) from the bottom. This is the first thing to be done, but it is done along with something else. Let me tell you the technique in sequence. I’m just focusing attention on the points for you to understand this easier and to know how to do it more correctly. This technique is performed… First, what is necessary? We have found this point, placed the fingers, we don’t press. Then we take a deep breath, exhale, and hold our breath. We can slightly inhale or exhale, or take an easy breath (an easy, superficial one, no deep breathing). We hold our breath and focus our eyes on the tip of our nose. Solely on the tip of our nose, we mustn’t (and here is an important moment), again, we mustn’t take our eyes off the tip of our nose. So, we have held our breath, focused on the tip of our nose, and then we press on this He Gu point with the utmost strength, up to the tolerance threshold. With our eyes open, we continue following the tip of our nose, we hold our breath, press and count out 12 seconds. That is, a time interval which equals 12 seconds by the modern count. Thereafter, we close our eyes, release the pressure (meaning, we remove our hands), exhale if we’ve been holding our breath, or inhale if we have exhaled before, doesn’t matter. We take two short breaths, but the concentration… We have closed our eyes, but we continue focusing on the tip of our nose again, as if we continue seeing it with our eyes closed. Then we find the Wai Guan and Nei Guan point. So, I’m saying once again, you have put your wrist like this, placed the third and the fourth finger, and placed the second and the first finger below. This way is wrong – it won’t work. This way, it will work. Thereafter (once you have found the point and done that, at the same time, with your eyes closed, you continue focusing your gaze on the tip of your nose), we take two short, easy breaths, no breath holding, that is, again, without using the lower abdomen, just an easy chest breath. Then we hold our breath and start impacting again, pressing on this point on our, so to say, forearm, up to the tolerance threshold. This impact lasts for about 12 seconds (well, between 11 and 12… 12 is simpler). After that, we just exhale, open our eyes, stop pressing, and then we can breathe freely. The correct performance of this technique, let’s say, it’s very easily felt whether a person has done it right or not. It is spreading of heat between the shoulder-blades, which then spreads with heat to the chest, back of the head, and so on. I understand, our colleagues can easily explain this. Firstly, it’s compression and pain, secondly, it’s concentration, we have redirected all thoughts, we no longer think about anything, we hold our gaze because God forbid you take it away. Breath holding, as we have already said, is satiation with carbonic acid, of course, any panic attack will be gone, well, this is clear. Pardon me, and what about pre-heart-attack conditions, which are easily jugulated and eliminated this way? Those very poisons, right?.. When a person is in critical stages, this is a self-resuscitation technique that enables him to survive. And what about wounding with poisonous weapons which were used in ancient times? And, pardon me, wounds did heal. So, it turns out that toxic substances ceased to have an effect. It’s a fact that poisons ceased to have an effect, this has been tested, however I don’t advise you to fool around
and play with this. I also want to say right away regarding this technique: it mustn’t be done more than two times in a row, no matter how hard it is for a person or what condition he is in… And it shouldn’t be repeated sooner than in 12 hours, and it shouldn’t be abused. Everything is medication, and everything is poison, depending on the dosage that makes them such. Moreover, you shouldn’t experiment: when impacting your right hand with the left one – there will be an opposite effect. This is also true. And we have noticed many times (I’ll digress a little) how people shake hands.
Just for understanding – these are the fingers of exterior impact. That is, we can affect the exterior part with these fingers, but we cannot affect the interior part. The first finger goes along the meridians, it goes from the interior part, and so we can affect the interior part (whether it is legs, abdomen, back – doesn’t matter). Then this technique works, but it works with such details. If you have held your breath in a wrong way, got distracted or gazed wrongly – a failure occurs already, and the technique doesn’t work. When it’s right – everything works. Let’s go back to simple impacts, for example, well, we’ve started talking about Dim Mak, it’s just interesting. So, people greet each other, give me your hand, please. Everyone knows, everyone greet each other. And look, how interesting it is that these impacts while greeting… They say, “People can affect in some…” They cannot. Why? Because that which is supposed to work (turn it like this, please) here – it is located here. That which is supposed to work here – it is located here. (Tatiana: On the top). And they say, “These secret pressures…” – all this works in movies. But in Dim Mak, other methods were often used (Tatiana: …internal ones). And we often see how a certain organization, which has introduced it all (well, this is already… although it has already been existing for a long time, for several millennia), it introduced special handshakes, we observe this on television. Tatiana: He covers from the top, like with his palm…Igor Mikhailovich: All kidding aside, simple impacts (just like the method I’ve just shown)… simple impacts can influence people’s health — and after a while this has consequences. A simple example for those who are in the know: if this simple method of such self-resuscitation had been known to a certain person (who in his time was, I would even say, not just famous, he was a legend), he wouldn’t have died in 1973 from cerebral edema. So… well, those who know will understand. Why? Because there are not only resuscitation methods, but also methods of impact that can cause various diseases. But I’m saying once again, this is not the basis of Dim Mak. Dim Mak was created for something different. The history of Dim Mak is actually very interesting. The first mentions of it date back to, if we take it from the records, well, it first began to be mentioned about 1,000 years ago. Before that, there was just the same thing, but it was called differently and was more extended. Dim Mak is already sort of a light version of the Old Lama Path. That’s what the art, which is now called Dim Mak, used to be called. And another 1,000 years before that, it was called the Three Steps of Gautama.
Look, what a… Yet, the Three Steps of Gautama used to include even more knowledge than was included in the Old Lama Path. Meaning, it appears that we are not developing, but are losing over the years. Well, the Three Steps of Gautama is also interesting; well, in principle, we can talk about it without going into too much detail, for those who are interested. Well, many know about Buddha, so we probably shouldn’t delve too much into this topic, but I think it will be interesting for people why there is such a name and where it originated from. Today, in Buddhist records we can find that when young Gautama was seeking the inmost, the enlightenment, when he was still in search of, let’s say, his insight, enlightenment. He went outside of India and visited Tibet, and Altai. Not just visited — he was looking for Shambhala. Well, you can still find records of what he was looking for, but what we won’t find, and what his followers have completely erased, is that he wasn’t admitted to Shambhala. Well, how is that, “Buddha wasn’t admitted to Shambhala,” therefore, they removed and erased this. However, the fact that he made such trips remained. And the most interesting thing is that even to the Shambhala’s threshold — Belovodye in Altai — he was admitted only on the fifth try. But this doesn’t mean that he was so bad. On the contrary, thanks to his perseverance and sincere inner purity, not only was he allowed to enter, but he was introduced to the Knowledge of AllatRa. Moreover, he was introduced to the Bailian Jiao science, or the Teaching of the White Lotus
as it is otherwise called. Thus, AllatRa and the White Lotus formed the basis and became the instrument owing to which later on Gautama became Buddha. And this Knowledge, just as it… as it was, such as he got it, he passed it on to his closest disciples during his lifetime. The latter ones were passing it on to their disciples for almost 100 years. However, in less than a hundred years after Gautama had left, the concept of the AllatRa Knowledge disappeared completely, and such a concept as the Teaching of the White Lotus… Most of it was discarded due to a lack of understanding of why it was needed, only the practical part was left — that which could be applied at that time, and from the standpoint of development — well, precisely various methods of impact, a bit of secret knowledge, a bit of metaphysics. All this was called the Three Steps of Gautama, and it went around the world. Whereas that which was AllatRa for some reason got distorted, altered, and complicated to such an extent, everything was just altered to the utmost, and distorted as always. Well, again, right now, many will think, “Well, as always, it was distorted.” Guys, as a matter of fact, what Buddha had brought in was kept in purity for almost 100 years after him; in this human civilisation, that’s a record. Indeed, after Jesus, everything was altered immediately, during the Prophet Muhammad’s lifetime they already began to… he was still… Anna: …yes, to alter already during his lifetime…Igor Mikhailovich: …To alter and distort everything even during his lifetime. Thus, in actual fact, it doesn’t matter from where and how the sources that existed were brought in, but everything that was given to people openly was distorted much faster. Yes, he is the leader as of today… it has lasted the longest. So, there are also advantages here. You see how interesting everything is,
it’s not all that simple. Another interesting thing is that, yes, they have changed everything, but nevertheless the AllatRa sign and the White Lotus are still dominant in Buddhism, and even Buddhists don’t know why. Well, there are many theories and stories, but in fact, everything is simple. Interestingly enough, to this day, in that very Belovodye, both the AllatRa Knowledge and the Teaching of the White Lotus have remained as unchanged as they were in the time of young Gautama. It’s all interesting, of course, but after almost 100 years — the Three Steps of Gautama began. Then about 500 more years passed — the Three Steps of Gautama were gone, and the Old Lama Path appeared. This teaching existed for almost 1,000 years, but then it was gone, and the so-called Dim Mak appeared. Such a history of human life. While actually everything is simple. Methods are simple, the impacts are simple, but they work, it works. It would seem that if we concentrate, hold our breath (this is about the method which I have shown), press on the points… Yet, if we consider more broadly what is actually happening to a person at this time from the perspective of the energy structure… After all, we impact energy points, not just pain receptors. Although, I will say once again that we have observed changes in both the amplitudes and frequencies in the work of the brain at the time of this impact and after it — and they are striking, this is interesting. Whoever wants to, can repeat it, it’s something worth seeing. But the most important thing is that, if properly performed, a person begins to feel, and he feels even at the physical level. This is the activation specifically of his or her energy capabilities. And so, they neutralize the effects of poison, they give a surge of such power that a person who was definitely supposed to die, yet he comes back to life. Well, of course, it neutralizes what we started with — the vegetative crises. It won’t cure them, but it’s a method of stopping them for a long time. It is clear that the reason for this crisis is in a completely different plane. And the methods of impact on the structure — well, it’s still the same as the methods of impact, say, on that very TV: if you don’t like a programme —
just change it. Well, so it allows the programme in which they talk about health to be changed, but the programme is still there. Until a person learns to work with his thoughts, until he learns to control them, they will still get to him from time to time and, as they say, will force him to make mistakes, right? Tatiana: Igor Mikhailovich, you have also said about the Three Steps of Gautama and mentioned the AllatRa Knowledge, too. Are these three steps also present in AllatRa, or?.. Igor Mikhailovich: No, wait. Let’s just sort this out. The AllatRa Knowledge is… very extensive, it includes everything. And it includes the Bailian Jiao science or what is called the Teaching of the White Lotus. This teaching is more like, let’s say, such a practical teaching, whereas AllatRa is actually spiritual. What is the meaning of AllatRa? AllatRa is God’s Love, and the purpose of AllatRa itself is exactly this path of how from a person obedient to satan one can become an Angel.
That’s the meaning of AllatRa. Well, sure, if we take the AllatRa Knowledge as a whole, it includes the Bailian Jiao science as well. Tatiana: Practices. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, certainly, it is practical knowledge, it includes a lot of things, not only of how…
how to press and where. Well, at least it’s useful, we have discussed it just now. Tatiana: Thank you very much, Igor Mikhailovich, because as a matter of fact, today, perhaps it’s also the most valuable gift for people who are in these states; because in our time, at such a time, almost the entire humanity is probably in the state of depression and panic attacks. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, depression is something a little bit different. Here depression… we already discussed, and you discussed in your games, we understand perfectly well what it is. It’s not panic attacks, it is selfishness.
Diana: Beyond selfishness. Igor Mikhailovich: And it’s interesting that… well, it will probably be incorrect to say this, well… Let’s say, in extremely severe life conditions people never have depressions (Diana: There are no depressions),
I will put it in such a civilised way. And there are plenty of historical examples of that. So… Diana: It’s interesting that relatives of patients themselves, when they come and, of course, try to talk to a doctor, they say, “Doctor, excuse us, we surely understand that she has a diagnosis, and this is very hard, and we should help her, but as far as we understand this is sheer selfishness” (Igor Mikhailovich: Well, this is really so). That is, people themselves understand the essence very well. Igor Mikhailovich: Well, everyone understands, everyone knows (Diana: Yes). While the one who’s in a depressive state really considers himself a sick person (Diana: Right). And so, nobody understands him, nobody loves him, he pities himself, and so on. Well, everything is actually simple, here, again, there is already consciousness’ manipulation
over the person. The person gets into an extremely inconvenient state, and it’s difficult for him to get out of it. Yet again, why is it difficult?
Because he doesn’t want to. Is it really difficult to stand up and exit through the door? No, it’s not difficult, but for this, what does he need to do? To stand up and go, while consciousness doesn’t allow him. Anna: And it would also be interesting to ask (we also had a talk earlier), what is actually a definition of a healthy person? Because all the time it is said that “they treat”, “they cure”, “to cure”, but what is the picture of that… or rather not the picture, what is the understanding of what a spiritually healthy and a truly healthy person is like? Igor Mikhailovich: A truly healthy person,
I will put it as follows – it’s a person with an Angel in his chest. Not just separately Personality, separately soul, separately consciousness, but an Angel in a body. That’s what a truly healthy person is like. And he doesn’t care at all whether his body is sick or not. He’s already healthy because he won’t die. He has gained Life, and he really lives in Love and in happiness completely. I believe this is the best thing possible, right? So, dear friends, thank you very much for being with us. Let’s just love each other and strive for all of us to be healthy. Thank you!

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